Why 1 & 1 Internet Suck
Yes….I’ve turned American, I said suck 🙂
As I’m sure long time readers of the blog know, it takes a lot to get me “wound up” but something happened yesterday that got my blood boiling, and from the title of this blog post you can probably guess which company I had the misfortune of dealing with.
Here’s the story:
A couple of years ago I created a website for one of my relatives, I registered the domain name for the website over at 1&1, I created a new account for my relative so she could manage the domain.
Back at the start of the year I did an internal domain transfer and moved the domain name from her 1&1 package to my own, so her package now contained no domains.
All well and good, but then my relative received this through the post:
It was a letter from a debt collection agency called Arvato Finance acting on behalf of 1&1, they demanding the huge sum of £4.68 for a domain name that they claimed had not been paid for. The domain HAD been paid for, but it had been paid for through my own 1&1 account (where the domain now “lives”), yet they still demanded paying for the domain.
I logged into my aunts account and there was no domain name listed in the package, so why were we being charged twice for the same domain?
A phone call to both 1&1 and Arvato was about as helpful as BA on a long haul flight with both passing us back and forth between each other. After a search on google for “1&1 Arvato Finance” it seems to be a common practice for 1&1 to charge customers for domains they no longer have with the company.
In the end we decided to just pay the bill, for under £10 it really wasn’t worth the hassle.
But let this be a lesson to all of you, think twice before you purchase your domain name with 1&1!
You can read my 1and1 Review by clicking here.
Update; March 2011
It’s been the best part of 3 years since I originally created this post, but a reader has just left a very useful comment that shows you exactly how to word your reply to Arvato Finance if you don’t think you owe 1and1 any money. Full credit for the letter below goes to James Kahm.
To: collections@arvatofinance.co.uk
Subject: REF : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:25:10 +0000Dear AFS
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (1 and 1 internet ).
I am are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading debt collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.
Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.
I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
XXXXX
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Hi Dan
Just to let you Know that I had exactly the same problem with 1&1. I bought a domain name with them, paid £4.99 for 2 years and moved it to a different host. 6 years down the line I get a letter from the debt collectors Arveto, saying that I owed 4 years for the domain name and £5 late payment fee, I phoned 1&1 up and they said I had to sort this out with Arveto, so I phoned them, and they told me, in not so many words that, if I did not pay it would go to court and I would end up paying the court cost aswell, so I paid the £15. I think that 1&1 are full of BS and wont be buying anything else from them again ever.
Anyway, have a good day :~)
Paul
Ohh Dan!
I must say.. you by far have the most “entertaining” posts of all the marketers I follow! You truly “Crack Me Up” .. You should be in Stand Up Comedy.. or maybe in sales! Do you do any impressions or funny faces?
As for the collection letter.. I feel your pain. I was sent to collections for 52 cents.. thats half a dollar… 52 pennies!! Unbelieveable! The postage stamp to mail the darn collection notice costs more than that!
Where’s the common sense, then it gets better… when I called the company to inquire, the representative cant even speak english. What the !@#$ ? So in the end… I charged the 52 cents to my credit card.
As for you… I would highly recomend nixing 1&1 and try D9 Hosting. Here’s my affiliate link.
http://www.d9hosting.com/clients/aff.php?aff=091
Be sure to take advantage of the 2 year package… you can also check domain availability and purchase all your domains through them as well! You wont have any silly billing issues, I’m pretty confident of that!
Plus, the customer service is unparalelled!
LOL!
Take Care!
Omar
@ Omar – “Do you do any impressions or funny faces?”
I do an awesome Australian impression. I turn my back on the microphone and audience, turn round, walk up to the mic and shout…
STREWTH 🙂
On a serious note, thanks to both of you for the comments. Out of interest are you both subscribed to the RSS feed for this blog, or were you just lucky enough to visit on a day when I made a new post?
And PURLEASE, don’t anyone ask him what he does at the mic when he does his scottish impression 🙁
I’ve seen it… I’ve lived it… I’m still in therapy!!
Paula
Hi,
I had this exact same problem, but choose not to pay and nothing happened!
ST
Dan,
No need for an RSS feed. My loyalty is much more reliable. I check every page of your blog for new content daily. I check before breakfast and then at bed time incase you sqeezed something in on me during the day.
Its like that Aerosmith song…. “I don’t wanna close my eyes.. I don’t wanna fall asleep cause I’d miss your blog… and I don’t wanna miss a thing!”
🙂
Omar
Hi Dan,
I can empathise with your story about treatment from 1&1. I recently received a ‘threatening’ letter from them about a package I didnt even know I had. It had been cancelled by me but too late. They threatened me with the Bailiffs and a Cash Recovery firm and I had to pay up around £85. They then said the amount of Package I had not used would be credited back to my Paypal account. This didnt happen. As with yourself, Customer service were a WOT! They told me 1&1 dont give refunds.
After several e-mails and phone calls and lots of stress, I did get a refund to my Paypal account.
Any company who sends you a ‘threatening’ letter without even a reminder is not worth bothering with. I shall NEVER use 1&1 again.
PETER
Wow…
And I’ve never had any trouble with them at all…..
Still the only reason I use them is that I have so many domains with them now – it’s just convenient!…lol
I think it’s time to consider other options now though…especially as they aren’t the cheapest around!!
Randy
http://www.RandolfSmith.com
@ Omar, I was going to do a clever reply with some lyrics of the Aerosmith song but my minds gone blank…I’ll have to get the I-Pod out and then come back with an answer!
@ Randy, I think that’s the problem when you have so many domains with 1 company, it’s a pain in the arse to move them all, but they’ve annoyed me so much that I’m going to be moving just about all of mine away from 1&1. It will cost a lot in transfer fee’s but I think it will be worth it, can you imagine if a card expired and you didn’t update it, you could risk losing all the domains you have with them 🙁
@ Everyone else, thanks for sharing your comments. I saw a lot of people on Google that had the same problems with 1&1 but I never thought so many of my readers would have had the same experience, just goes to show you how widespread the problem is.
I’ve known for awhile now that you were funny but you and Omar together that would be a riot.
I am sure it is nice to have such a wicked sense of humor and be so intelligent also.
I wonder to whom you will change your hosting.
Carol
I’m with 1and1 and like Randy, have so far, (touch wood) not had any problems.
However, I’ve heard many things that make me nervous about staying with their company. Two thirds of my domains are held elsewhere so hopefully it won’t be too painful to move once my contract expires (next year!)
Plus I want cPanel and fantastico… 🙂
John Szram
Dan, i purchased a Domain from 1&1 and uploaded my website. Believe it or not severl months later i checked my site & couldn’t find it. 1&1 had lost my website and couldn’t find it. They hadn’t made a backup of it (neither did I, a good lesson I learned) and I lost my website and they offered no help…they just told me to upload it again.but because of my lag of making a backup I couldn’t do it.
So I had no website running anymore. Trying to work with their support was a nightmare & waste of time.
Hi Bill,
There support is pretty terrible at the best of times, I remember having a 2 week long dispute with the support staff about some of our nameservers that were pointing to the wrong IP.
I even got the ticket escalated but they guy who it was escalated to was even less help than the frontline support staff 🙁
I just had a letter from them askig for £700 plus a further £5 charge for late payment. Does not say what it is for or anything and I havnt had any previous correspondence from them
I have emailed the collections department requesting more information, copy of the previous correspondence etc
del
1&1 and criminals and should hang their heads in shame. I have the letter from them and their henchmen Arvato Finance for £11.88
BEWARE anyone who has a service with 1&1 and think everything is fine.. You wait to the day when you want to cancel…
They set the baliffs on you for stupid amounts of money. They know most people pay up because its not worth the hassle.
These people are PIGS because what other company automatically charges you for another year? Most send you an Invoice then wait for payment. No payment? No service. You dont send the baliffs. That is just plain sick.
So my warning to ANYONE with a 1&1 account is that their company Arvato Finance is just round the corner and they will come knocking at your door with letters. If you are like me and an honest person can you imagine how you feel when you open a letter with the words “recover debt” and “formally persue” and “to halt this process..” and “Instructed by Creditor to persue…” NICE.
As a law abiding person I bet you would HATE that landing on your doormat. It would frighten you. Think of all the times in your life where you have never bothered to renew something. Insurance, Magazine subscription, Clubs.
Also the get out of jail card (cancel your account) is so cumbersome with 1&1 that it is deliberately designed to fail at multiple points to include:
1) Not being easy to find
2) Multiple pages
3) Buttons hidden at bottom of pages
4) Extra screens saying “are you sure…”
5) Email validation
6) Non arriving emails to put the final nail in.
This is fraud. Pure and simple.
Richard Hazell.
You idiots paying bills that you don’t even owe because “it really wasn’t worth the hassle” are what keeps scumbags like this in business.
Like it’s a real hassle to hang up a phone. Maybe I’ll look up your phone number via whois and call you for a couple bucks next time I feel like going out for a pint.
Better yet I’ll get my friends wife to call… she’s way more annoying than me.
Unfair Buisness Practice
According to 1&1 own T&C you can terminate the contract by putting it in writing. In August last year I did because due to the economic down turn my company had ceased trading and was de-solved, not owing anyone I might add. Also as the company had ceased trading I no longer had access to the email address that I set the account up in.
After not hearing from 1&1 I chased it up with an email, as per their T&C what then followed was 3 months of 1&1giving me the wrong information and the even told me it was cancelled in the end I told them I had fished with them and I did not want any more to do with them.
In April this year I was contacted by Arvarto Finance Services not only for this account but also for another account, another month went by of me explaining why I did not owe the money. I am the informed that I don’t owe the money on one of the accounts. They were however perusing me for the other one. I took some legal advice and wrote to both 1&1 and Arvarto Finance telling them I did not owe the money and to stop bully in me and if they did not respond within 10 days I would consider the mater closed. 2 months pass and nothing then Arvarto finance contact me again I am now in dispute with 1&1 for £30.00.
Recently I received a letter from H L LEGAL & Collections in association with Sampson & Co they have now given me 7 day and have threatened me with court action. I rang H L LEGAL and funnily enough they knew nothing of the case. This raised my suspicions I was finally passed through to a Mr Carl Wiltshire who not only told me he was a solicitor but I think he also told me it was his family business. Mr Carl Wiltshire then told me that his company did not send the letter but I think he said the company name was licensed to Arvarto Finance. I told him I thought that it was illegal to do that as I felt that the letter did not make it clear who the company was or their roll with Arvarto Finance As it is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or a misleading manner. Also it is wrong for companies to ignore disputes about whether you owe the money and refuse to freeze action if you dispute the dept.
I sent Mr Carl Wiltshire the information and he emailed it to Arvarto Finance.
Phill Sylvester
This is how you deal with them.
To: collections@arvatofinance.co.uk
Subject: REF : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:25:10 +0000
Dear AFS
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (1 and 1 internet ).
I am are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading debt collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.
Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.
I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
James Khan
They will reply saying the case is closed. They cannot prove the debt is valid and so cannot chanse it.
Hi James,
Thanks for the comment, I’m sure that will be a great help to people reading the blog.
It’s so good that I’m going to amend the original blog post to include your suggested way of dealing with them.