Did (some) Online Marketers Ever Have Any Class?
Did (some) Online Marketers Ever Have Any Class?
This is a first for me, today I will be moving away from my usual “How To†guides to have a bit of a rant. It’s not just any rant either, it’s been something that’s been building up for months now so I’m going to have a little vent on the blog!
I think it’s going to be a difficult one for me to write, as you’ll either agree with me, or you’ll think I’m a bitter twisted little man and you’ll probably never read a post of mine again, but one feels that one should take the risk and write it anyway 🙂
My beef (or houmous if you are a vegetarian) is with marketers that have absolutely no class. Not class as in they don’t know which knife and fork to use at a dinner party, but the very much un-classy way that they come across when communicating with their mailing list members.
And just a quick side note before I really get going, I’m not tarring every online marketer with the same brush, the vast majority are great people that I get along very well with, there’s just a very small portion that market in a way that I really don’t feel comfortable about.
So, what exactly is my problem?
Marketers that push their “wealth†in EVERY SINGLE email, blog post, twitter update, forum post, testimonial and so on!
Now I can fully understand providing proof of earnings when the marketer is selling a “How To Make Money†type guide, but do we really need to hear about how they are riding around in their limo this morning, or how they just spoke with their best friend about how much money they made last week?
Would they actually talk like this to people in “real life�
Am I the only person that finds it absolutely cringeworthy?
I am reading the emails whilst thinking to myself “Did they really say that?â€
Plenty of open ended questions there, but I’m going to go back to the “real life†question.
I don’t know about you, but I like to communicate with my members (you!) using the same language and tone as I would in “real lifeâ€. I’d like to think if you ever met me in person that I’d be exactly the same as I come across in my online communication.
But are these people that insist on pushing their “wealth†in our face every day the same? Would they actually walk up to someone in the street and push their latest 6 figure affiliate cheque in the persons face, because that’s what it feels like they are doing when I read their emails or other communication.
I don’t want to come across as being a jealous newbie either, I’m very lucky that I earn a very, very good income from online marketing. But I do it without needing to push my earning figures in your face every week. I’ve been writing this blog for over 2 years now and I can’t remember ever telling you, or anyone else for that matter how much I made last week, last month or last year.
Hell, I don’t even tell my friends what I earn!
They do sometimes ask me, as they are curious about “What Dan actually does for a job†but even then I do feel very uncomfortable talking about it, I’d like to think the reason for feeling uncomfortable when talking about my earnings is because I have a bit of class.
What I’m trying to get at here is there’s a fine line between showing some proof of how a system works and earnings but not the bragging on and on and on, no class, and I think it’s very unsavoury to go on about how much you are earning.
Oh well, maybe it’s just a British thing!
Regards,
Dan
I’m sure I don’t need to give you a push towards the comments section for this one, I’d imagine pretty much everyone must have a view on this so comment away!
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Here, here [she says, pursing her British stiff-upper lip] 😉
Paula Brett
http://www.Paula-Brett.com/blog
If there was one thing I could change about this industry this would be it.
Every time my chauffeur picks me up he’s always telling me how much he’s won on the dogs this week, I never hear the end of it!
I got so fed up with it I’ve taken to driving myself around Monaco. I usually take the F430 Spider but it’s in having the dash gold plated. I had to resort to the Bentley. Can’t have eveything I suppose. 😉
John Szram
http://www.johnszram.com
You definately have hit the nail with the hammer in quite a number of places! – I have thought about posting the same rant over on my blog, but when I get started, I never seem to stop!
Anyway, I must be off! My Aston Martin has just been delivered from the showroom, and I wouldn’t mind taking it for a spin. I had the Bentley not so long ago, but it just wasn’t performing so I locked it up beside me other 32 cars and bought a new one! 😉 😛
(LOL – Sorry, I couldn’t resist!)
Thanks
Mark
I love people telling me how much I’m going to earn after I’ve bunged a whole load of my hard earned money at them.
I always believe what I’m told.
That’s why my address is ‘Tesco’ box
Third Arch down
Under Battersea Bridge
Paul: You send me $500 and I’ll show you the exact step-by-step techniques I use to make to make exactly $500. Join Now! 🙂
John Szram
http://www.johnszram.com
Absolutely right Dan – any salespages I receive that include graphics of super-duper sports cars and/or mansions go straight into the ‘junk’ box. I find them and their salespitches hard to believe.
Best,
Trevor
PS – I think Paula meant “Hear hear”
Hi Dan
I’m right behind you on this one.
My own pet hate is marketers who are so desparate to get pitch after pitch out to their lists that they don’t take the time to get their grammer and spelling right.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not looking for perfection, but reading some of these emails is like reading my 8 year old daughters homework!
For perfect spelling and grammer (not!) try http://www.stuart-turnbull.com
Trevor: OMG, I did!!!! How embarrassing that I made a spelling mistake 🙁
Quick, Dan, change it for me, else I’ll never live it down
Paula
Those kind of mails are dumped straight into my trash can actually.
When I come across that kind of advertising, I always find it very annoying to read also, so I just zap away.
I always wonder what those kind of marketers AREN’T telling me, and why they think they need their earnings stats to prove the stuff they’re selling is so great.
“Yeah, of course you can have all of that too”, they keep telling us. Why on earth, when I can get all the same things they’re having, do they put an earnings disclaimer at the bottom of the page to begin with.
If they were telling the truth, the disclaimer should say: “Yes indeed, when you buy this product we guarantee you this very same income”.
Don’t think it’s just a British thing, Dan. As a Dutchman I can say it bugs me as well. A European thing maybe?
Daniël
No!….. you are wrong Dan (long pause)…..
It’s not just a British thing!
I click off a sales page as soon I see so called “proof” about how much they made in just one week after putting their sales page up or how the make a zillion dollars a day on Auto Pilot! My thinking is they are full of B.S.
I don’t know about you, but if I made a “zillion” dollars a day without lifting a finger I wouldn’t be trying to sell a new product every other day. I’d be kicked back on some Island some where, sipping drinks out of a coconut that have an umbrella stuck in it…..
Well I guess I said enough for now and I need to go out to the woods and find some food to feed my family…..I think I”ll take the helicopter, it’s easier to spot my quarry from the air…LOL
Take Care,
PaPaGrizz
I can say for one at least it crosses the water. I think it is perhaps an international thing.
As a newbie and proud of it, I am realistic enough to know that the chances of me making a million dollars on internet marketing in my lifetime are very slim.
I think the worst thing about this marketers” tactics is that they are insulting my intelligence. This is a BIG pet peeve for me. I may not be the smartest cookie on the block (I am pretty sure that is Randy) but I still have enough up there to understand things and I don’t like to be insulted.
These same marketers are often the ones that pepper your inbox with 2 or even 3 emails a day. If I leave my subscription there, it is short lived for a purpose or just to see how far they will go. My goodness, how do they have the time to write all of those emails? Must be all they do.
Carol
Hi Dan
Absolutely right!….Those sort of pages always put me right off, they come across to me as spivs and con-men.
No claims like that on my sites….Even though I do genuinely have a villa in Spain right by Mediterranean….Just got out of the pool in fact to write this…then I’m straight back!
Can’t brag about big bucks though….Well not yet, cos I do have 5 premium bonds and a Euro lottery ticket for Friday…..Who knows!!
Regards
Chris
Warning: 1st time poster.
I thought I was the only one turned by this kind of marketing. It must be working for them to keep using, I guess. Maybe it has to do with the state of our society. Look at some of the crap being peddled in the media. Britney Spears, ugh sold over millions of records and she can’t sign. I guess it can work for internet marketer too. Even if your product is garbage, you package it nice enough it will sell.
P.S. Have you seen that richjerk.com website, and does anyone actually buy that crap. it was worse that watching 2girlsonecup.
Hey Dan
Hope the sunstroke has calmed down.
We have been having such lovely weather it’s FAB!
I agree with all the above posts, except for the Britney can’t sign (sign) cos I happen to like her stuff!
I think people are finally wising up to all the crap people push today!
Sally 🙂
That was an interesting read before I even had some coffee. I agree with you 100%. I always have a full trash can. If I get more than one email a day trying to sell me something, I trash it without reading it.
I have enough to do creating and maintaining my own Internet career without reading some crap from an idiot. You got to me, Dan, with this post…started my heart and set my hair on fire at the same time.
I subscribe to a lot of newsletters and blogs because I have to sort of stay up to date on current trends and such, but I often unsubcribe faster than I subscribed. I had one marketer send me an email every 2 hours…nuked outta my email forever.
When I read those emails I wonder why they are so crude and without manners or class. Doesn’t matter which side of the pond we are all on, it’s a matter of breeding and common sense. I, like most of you, have my good weeks and bad ones and certainly don’t need to be taunted by fake earnings statements.
PS…I am horrified to discover that Paula can’t spell. She fooled me for years. LOL
I think sometimes certain internet marketers take their ‘social proof’ a little too far and it can be a big turn off for struggling marketers. They need to show something to get the punters excited but pictures of sports cars,mansions and boats mean diddly squat to people with a bit of nous.
A few of them can get away with it because they are undoubtedly at the top of the marketing food chain and don’t do it to brag but merely to illustrate what is possible and manage to do it with a bit of class. But there are others who use it like a mental battering ram.
There is one particular ‘guru’ who laces his sales pages with pictures of his opulent lifestyle to suck you in. Having read one of his $97 ebooks it’s apparent that he has nothing to teach except vague rehashed tips that you can get anywhere for free. I would be ashamed to promote such rubbish.
Thanks for the comments everyone, almost too many for me to reply too individually but thanks everyone for the replies, it’s nice to know I’m not alone!
Wow Dan! You just make me day!
When I started as a 100% beginner,
– I was gullible and intimidated by sales pages with huge villas, BMWs, Clickbank “pictures†of earnings, I decided that I needed to learn more about IM
– I attended a 3 day seminar with 3 big gurus, smooth talking skilled speakers, but I had the filling that something is missing and they casually said that it is so simple to do Internet Marketing, is like 1-2-3
– At the end they tried to sell a 3 day boot camp which cost $3,500 (we already spent $2,500 to get to the seminar)
– At this point I started to be suspicious. If there is so easy why we need to spend other $3,500.
Guess what, I got back home and I started to implement what I learned on the seminar:
1) Yes a lot of essential parts was missing, definitely on purpose to made us buy the boot camp
2) It is not near close to be simple as 1-2-3, it is a long learning curve
3) I filled stupid that I already spent $2,500 to find out the first 2 bullets, but I congratulate myself that I didn’t get to boot camp
This is the problem, those guru marketers suppose to find more beginners to follow them.
If a “beginner†can pay $6,000 for his learning curve, he/she is not a beginner! They are talking with a wrong crowd!
I never notice a guru saying, I’ll give you the boot camp for free and you will pay me when you start to make money, don’t you? Why? Because they are not sure that you will succeed and they want you to continue to buy from them.
Now, to answer your question, why they try to sell something each day, because the people are sick and tired with there show off stile, and they don’t make now as much money as they use to do.
But they don’t learn a correct lesson from this, instead to find out what happened with the old gullible crowd, they think that having big volume will solve there problem.
It will take a lot of time until the practices of Internet Marketing will change.
And the big impact is on beginners, it is very hard to be a beginner those days.
When you see how much a guru gives away to sell a $27.00 product, this really means that a beginner will never begin selling something because he/she doesn’t have tones of staff to give away. Do you notice how much our friend JT gives away?
Well, what is left for beginners – fake it until you make it, or give up, or stay reasonable but straggle forever?
This is just one reason why I really appreciate what Carol is doing; she gives a hand for beginners who cannot spend $6,000.
Sorry it was so long, but I fill like telling my mind.
Regards Michaela
http://www.mc-ebay-resources.com
Thanks for the comment Michaela, “Your mind” was a very interesting read 🙂
LOL…. Good post Dan,
But even better responses, (with a few chuckles thrown in)
Naturally – I’m on side with the my income is my business take on things….
And to be honest – I too thought it was a British Attitude, but I now see it’s not.
However – allow me for a moment to digress.
Having read every comment on here, I notice that I recognise a lot of the names….
That then shows me that most are not … “Brand New Newbies”
Now if I can cross reference to Paulas blog post about the Video Sales Pitch of 50 minutes.. I gave a reply there, that I think fits very well for this post too…
The fact is – Everybody here that has posted about NOT liking these pages – Are NOT the target of these marketers.
I believe they are specifically targeting the brand new newbie who has just come online.
Bear in mind that there must be thousands (if not tens of thousands) or new ‘opportunity seekers’ coming online for the first time daily.
And (with respect) – They’re the suckers who do fall for these type of pitches!
I mean – would you waste you time going to buy a product from someone who tells you that you will have to work at your IM business, buildit slowly, form realtionships and gradually increase your income to a point of making a steady living…
(Which is something I can safely say – as I believe every person who has posted here knows this!)
OR
As a brand newbie – would you not rather just grab the package from someone who is “Obviously” Rich and is willing to share it with no effort required.
And don’t tell me it’s not logical to believe in the pipe dreams ….
Firstly – Human buy on emotions – not logic
And secondly – we all end up voting for politician every time there is an election don’t we??
So That is why I think they do it — but yeah, as mentioned, I’ve never personally liked it either.
(If you knew how many copywriting jobs I turn away due to not wishing to work on that type of page…lol)
Regards
Randy
http://www.RandolfSmith.com
[Who is grateful the rant wasn’t about people who ‘Ramble’ on for hours 😉 ]
“Who is grateful the rant wasn’t about people who ‘Ramble’ on for hours”
That’s next weeks topic 🙂
Class, that is a word I love! Of course, I’m Belgian 😉
I don’t know if I have class but I love people who have!
Five minutes ago, I just clicked on a link in a mail that loaded to a page full of private jet and Lamborghini…
I don’t want a private jet because I’m afraid to fly!
I don’t want a Lamborghini because I only drive my Peugeot 106 when I have no other choice and if I had to choose a Class car, I’d go for Marc MacWilliam’s old Bentley 😉
I don’t like people that throw “de la poudre aux yeux” (as we say in French) because if they were really as wealthy as they state, they would never tell it!
Moreover, if they earned as much money as they say, they would never ask to their subscribers to pay for their bills (travel, moving, medical) as some of them use to do it!
What you call having no class is in fact materialism… we can watch it in each and every American movie or TV series.
Lots of materialists think that showing how wealthy they are (not) makes them enter the Lords circle.
Don’t know if that kind of marketing really works; regarding me, it has an opposite effect: I run away!
Well, have to go back to read the adventures of Lord Ardry who’s driving a Bentley and a Rolls, shopping at Harrods, drinking Port Graham’s 1944. Oh, I forgot: he’s British, lol.
Hi Dan –
I agree also. Most of those type people lie about their income and they usually tell you what to do and not how to do it. I like to tally the amounts in their proof of earnings. I find many that don’t add up. If it was a real payment record it would. The other thing that get’s me is when these people put up an emergency firesale of there products.
One guy I saw had a few such products that if they were true could have made him the money he needed faster than the sale. And people still fall for it. Products like this I saw In a resent such sale – Like – $700 In 7 Days and 24K In One Hour.
I often see these same people begging in forums for people to buy their product to repair a car transmission or replace a damaged computer. If they were making as much as they say –
Saying what they make is just to distract you from looking to close at what they are selling. It’s like a 15 ft sales page. The facts you need to buy the product would fill the screen without scrolling. The rest is sales copy trying to excite you to buy something you don’t really need.
John
” I like to tally the amounts in their proof of earnings. I find many that don’t add up”
That reminds me of a sales page I saw once that had an “Earnings” screen shot from clickbank, the problem was that he’d doctored the screen shot wrong. On one line there was something like $10,000, and on the line below it was $11,000 – the daft sod had forgot to alter the bar chart things next to the numbers, the $10,000 bar was actually longer than the $11,000 bar 🙂
There was also a “PayPal Earnings” screen shot that I saw a while ago, all throughout the sales page the seller talked about how he was from the UK, yet his PayPal bank account withdrawls were all in USD $$….which i didn’t think was possible with a UK PayPal account!
Hi Dan..
Brilliant post..
I only brag about my income to Spud the cat and my sister-in-law 🙂
She’s a chartered accountant and of course I get her services for Free! 🙂
There’s a nice bit of synchronicity in this for me. I was talking to a friend last night about the need for change in current marketing strategies.. and one of them was what you described. The gist of the conversation was that marketers sell hope to people who want to change their lives, but most don’t do it with either honesty or integrity, and the telling of their own “success” stories is a case in point. I put the word success in quotes because making money is only one aspect of achieving true success in life.
As I see it, marketing needs a healthy dose of both honesty and integrity, and far less hype and “hypnotic” mind control BS, and all it takes is an inner shift in how we approach things. When we change our inner game from “What can I get?” to “What can I give?” we not only find the success we’re looking for in our own lives, but we help others to obtain it as well. It’s called the Law Of Reciprocation.. and it works.
Most marketers only look at how much they can get, and never take into consideration the value they’re giving.. nor their inner attitude with respect to what they’re doing. The result is that they market from fear and lack rather than abundance and giving.. and because they do, they tend to use mind control and emotional hot button techniques because they’re afraid they won’t survive or make money if they don’t.
Instead, they should be coming from an inner place of wanting to help others to succeed too, and doing it honestly and being real about it. I’ve found that people, including myself, respond much more to someone they trust and who is real than some guy who tries to ply money out of their wallet with all sorts of manipulative techniques. When I come across these types anymore I unsubscribe from their list as quickly as possible.. and obviously don’t buy their products.
I’ve done these same things in marketing, and discovered even as I was doing it that it just didn’t feel right to me.. and finally I discovered why. I was doing what everyone told me I should do to make money.. but it wasn’t right.. not for me or for anyone else. So now I’m in the process of completely rewriting all of my websites to reflect what I already was; a real guy who wants to help other people succeed.
The best,
John
You’re not alone Dan.
I’ve seen so many salespages and read so many emails that just really bug me. It seems like every other sentence has says something like “I just bought a new ferrari, now I have 6!” or “Just got back from my $5 million vacation home next to the beach”.
Like you said, proof is fine, but some marketers really overdo it. I wouldn’t complain if they simply showed me a screenshot of their paypal account, but NO, they have to show me their brand new luxury cars.
It’s just something that really bugs me too.
Amen Brother !
Now if we can get someone to rant about pushing every new clickbank product as the best way for us to get rich…my own pet peeve . It would be nice if half of these guys would at least use the product first as you seem to do.
Ron
Jeepers Dan,
How you can say such critical things about these obviously loveable scrotbags ………….????
I really have no idea, except you must be a Yorkshireman!!
I don’t mind naming names as examples of hype – I have to admit that it was a while before I learned that the Justin Blake, Sebastian Foss, Rich Jerk, blah-blah-blah and many others (even the Foxes) were the types I just didn’t trust to be sincere – EVEN IF THEY WERE!!!
I can say without any worries that I love to read mail from John Jonas and Jonathan Street, who both tear these “No-Class, No Substance” types to shreds!
For me the language is also just a tad TOOOOOOO down-market if there is just no attempt to use even proper American, never mind English!!
A whole string of “Gotta-Gonna” coming over like a bunch of Footie Supporters (who think a Result is a Win) just turns me right off. I have to steel myself to continue if I believe the material will actually have some value.
Hey, but I’m just “Grumpy Old Man” – what’s your excuse? Hahaha
Yours John
PS: Of course, I was trained to deliver orders in a clear, concise manner which all of my soldiers would understand (and act correctly upon). I hope I succeeded without “Hype-Shyte”. And – though I once had a Batman I preferred to be honest and polish my own shoes and leather belts, he just drove me round in my staff car (would you believe it was an old Morris Minor Estate!!!??)
PPS: I don’t believe Paula made a mistake, it’s not in her nature – she probably meant “here-here”, may have been having a massage at the time perhaps?
PPPS: I’m glad that I now know that Randy Rambles, don’t we all (know that I mean) – when I first read something from him I thought it said “Brambles”, not “Rambles” and I’ve tended to think of him as Brer Rabbit ever since – Rambling away at all and sundry from the depths of his ole Briar Patch!!!! It figures!!
Keep it up Dan – shoot-em down in flames mate – Hype-Shyte Shooting ought to be an Olympic Event!
Hi Dan
Totally agree with your comments. If I see a salespage or recieve an email from anyone who claims to be on so much money, they’ve got it coming out of their ears, I hit the unscribe button.
I don’t like the ” look how much money I’m earning approach ” and will not be using it in my marketing.
As always brilliant post Dan
Regards
Dawn Kay
I find it a bit of a cheek when we are in the year 2008 and you see snap shots of income i.e. clickbank account for the year 2004. What have those people not made anything since then (-:
Well, allow me to be British for a moment. Good show!
Totally agree.
It’s nice to know when someone IS actually making a living online but it’s even nicer when they just tell me how to do it. I do not begrudge anyone their success but I do not like arrogant bragging which is what is usually sounds like to me.
By the way, ABOUT TIME YOU DID A BLOG FACELIFT!!! MUCH better!!
Hi Dan,
Some people have to fake it to make it. Specially the ones that tell you it only takes 30 minutes a day.
Internet marketing takes months of hard work, burning the midnight oil.
Happy marketing all.
Albert.
Save up to 50% on your fuel consumption.
http://www.super-miling.com